So, what did Donald Trump do? He wrote a book, that's what he did, and he called it Surviving at the Top. Some might say, "what arrogance, what nerve." But his publishers have every reason to believe it will be a best seller.
Trump's name has been a magnet, and his first book, The Art of the Deal, was at the top of the best -- seller list for weeks. Donald Trump may have his problems, but he's not a quitter. A lesser man might have thrown up his hands at the events of the last several months. Trump's answer is: bravado.
This spectacular display in April was a Trump extravaganza. But even fireworks couldn't vanquish the aura of vedink [sp?] that clings to this most expensive casino ever, anywhere. It's Donald Trump's billion-dollar Taj Mahal, which's been setting Atlantic City gambling records since this opening day.
But it's still barely breaking even. And the Taj is draining revenues from the other two casinos that Trump owns. But the Taj Mahal's opening did steal headlines for a few days from the soap opera of Trump's personal life. First, in February, there was the publicity over his separation from his glamorous wife of 13 years, Ivana.
Add to that the spice of his friendship with an also glamorous model, the younger Marla Maples. And the tabloids had a field day. On the business side, there were growing financial problems.
In May, Forbes magazine reported that Trump's financial work had dropped by two-thirds to half a billion dollars. In June, Trump missed a payment to the bond holders of his Trump Castle Casino in Atlantic City. The Trump shuttle, which he bought last year from Eastern Airlines, wasn't making a profit. Manhattan's largest tract of undeveloped land, all 76 acres of it, was just sitting there. Trump bought it six years ago for $95 million. It's still undeveloped, and there are no buyers in sight.
Trump's bankers had a choice: they could force him into bankruptcy, or loan him more money. They chose to lend, but the terms were harsh. He had to relinquish a great deal of control over his empire, and Trump had to either get his assets to produce more money or sell them. Assets like this jewel, the Plaza Hotel, marking its second year under Trump ownership. It's still struggling out of debt.
Above it all, literally, sat a confident Donald Trump. From his 26th floor office in nearby Trump Tower, he was reassessing his options. Trump's office wall is decorated with magazine covers of happier times, but there are none on his wall from the past several months. And Trump had recently been reluctant to see reporters.
But as his new book reached the stores -- today is publication day -- he agreed to talk with me. For it's particularly important to him, these days, for this book to be a success.
While the new book is entitled Surviving at the Top, there are many people who would say, "failing at the top."
Well, I think what the press has done is taken a situation where they see something and blown it to kingdom come. I've never seen anything like it. Whether it's a marriage, by the way, or whether it's financial, I've never seen press reporting as I have with regard to me. I hope the general public understands how inherently dishonest the press in this country is.
As a member of the press, let me try to clear up some of the things which you say are untrue. You write in your book, "My bankers and I worked out a terrific deal. It allows me to come out stronger than ever. I see the deal as a great victory, and eventually, the rest of the world will, too." Being on the verge of bankruptcy, being bailed out by the bank - --
You don't have to say - --
-- what, skating on thin ice and almost drowning. That's a business man to be admired?
You say on the verge of bankruptcy, Barbara, and you talk on the verge, and you listen to what people are saying - --
I talked to your bankers.
Well, that's fine, and what did they say? I mean, you know, depending on which banker you're talking to - --
Several.
-- what did they say? The deal I worked out is in the process. The deal I worked out is something that I think is good for everybody. The economy is down the tubes. Nobody knows how bad the economy is. I listen to the people on Wall Street, talking about the possibility of a recession. We're not in a recession. We're in a depression.
Now, when you're in a depression, you have to sort of go with the punches. You have to go see your banks, you have to deal with people, you have to work things out. And there are a lot of people -- unfortunately, I'm the only one people write about. I mean, they don't write about other people.
You have a little more debt than most people. You're something like $3 billion in debt.
I also have a little more assets than most people.
Okay.
You know, it's sort of an interesting phenomenon. I have many friends -- they are negotiating with their banks the same as I am. And I always say to them, "How come you never get any publicity? You don't end up on the front page of the various garbage tabloids."
They weren't on the front pages to begin with. They don't have 50 magazine covers behind them.
I'll tell you, they also don't end up in the Wall Street Journal, and I do.
Let's try to be accurate.
Go ahead.
Some of your friends have told us that you deliberately missed a payment on the Trump Castle debt, so that you could negotiate this deal with the bank. Is that true?
Did I deliberately miss it? In other words, did I just say "I'm not paying it?"
Yeah, because, "then I can deal with my banks, and I can get short-term agreements over the long term."
Well, I don't want to comment as to whether or not I deliberately missed a payment.
Why not? That's important.
I think that the deal that's been worked is a fair deal. The Castle is doing very well, it's starting to deal really well. Atlantic City is in the midst of a recessionary area. People are not going down like they used to, because they don't have the money.
And the Taj Mahal, which was going to save everything, is just about breaking even, and your other two casinos are down 20 percent from last year. You have debts to pay back.
Right.
You have huge loans to pay back. You say the country is in a depression. What makes you think that you can pay back those loans, and further, what your bankers have told us is that the only way you even have a chance is by selling that property out there, totally, the Plaza.
Well, I don't know what the bankers have said. The Plaza's a very valuable property. Everybody told me, "Oh, you paid too much. You paid too much." Now they're all saying, "What a great deal he made on the Plaza."
No, they're not.
Well, I think you'll find that it's a great deal, when the deal is all said and done. I mean, the Plaza is doing very well. The Taj Mahal broke every record. That doesn't mean it's doing well, but the Taj Mahal, last month, had the highest win in the history of casino gaming.
I know, but it still was not enough -- it just barely broke even in terms of what it cost you.
It's doing record business, but it has to do probably more than record business.
Your bankers wish you well. When I talked to your bankers, they said "we hope he does it." What I am saying to is, you did over extend yourself. Okay?
Go ahead.
All right. How are you going to get out of this mess, surviving at the top, when everything is down, and you owe a tremendous amount of money?
'Cause I have great - --
Are you going to sell that Plaza?
You know why? 'Cause I have great assets.
Are you going to sell the shuttle? Are you going to sell them?
The answer is: because I have great assets, and the assets are doing very well. Take the Trump shuttle. Take the shuttle.
Not enough to pay back your debts.
Barbara, other people owe money far in access what their assets are. They have lousy assets. I have great assets. I have the best assets.
You gotta sell them in order to pay back your bills.
Perhaps you have to sell some of them. No, I don't have to sell all of them. Perhaps I'll have to sell some of them.
Which ones?
I think it's unlikely the Plaza gets sold. I think it's unlikely the shuttle gets sold. The shuttle is doing very well. We started off with 12 percent of the market, we're up to 50 percent of the market. Now what happens with the fuel oil, I don't know.
Have you had any bidders? Anyone want to buy it?
Yes, absolutely.
Why haven't you sold it?
Because I'm not satisfied with the price, and because I'm not sure that I'm looking to sell the shuttle.
Suppose things don't turn up. They don't get better. And you have to sell them all. And you may, and you may. And you've got the railroad yards on the West Side, you can't develop them. They're sitting there. You've got a lot of problems. Suppose it doesn't get better. Is it surviving at the top? Can you start all over again?
Yeah, I think it's surviving at the top, Barbara. If the economy goes further bad, and that's a possibility. That can happen. I'd have to sell more assets. But the assets are world-class assets that have values far in excess of the debt.
You say in your book, and I quote, "The truth is, that almost nothing in life is what it's cracked up to be, except the battle to get where you want to go." Well, many people disagree, they enjoy their work and their families. They have hobbies, they have interests. They don't think that nothing in life is what it's cracked up to be. That's rather cynical.
Well, I think that a lot of people would disagree with that. I think most people would disagree. And I think that's great, I mean, that's what it's all about.
Nothing you get, or got, or have is what it's cracked up to be?
Very little.
In your book you say, "Success is so often a matter a perception." What do you think the perception of you is today?
I really don't know what the perception is. I think people see me as a fighter. I think people have always seen me as a fighter. They know that I don't take a lot of crap from people and from others. And my life would be a lot easier if I did, to be perfectly honest.
In the current issue of Vanity Fair, the author, Marie Brenner says that you read from Hitler's collective speeches, My New Order. And that these are speeches that you seem to admire. What's your reaction? Do you have this book? Do you have these speeches?
It is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. A friend of mine sent me a book. A man who I think is Jewish, although I don't know -- sent me a book. It happened to be that book. All of a sudden Marie Brenner somehow found out that he had sent me a book. It is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, and I'm probably going to sue Vanity Fair over it.
The author, Marie Brenner, quotes you as saying to her, "When a man leaves a woman, especially when it was perceived that he has left for a piece of ass -- a good one -- there are 50 percent of the population who will love the woman who was left."
I do remember saying that. I don't remember having used those words. That's possible. But I believe that if a man leaves a woman for almost any reason, that that particular person, the man, is going to be at a major disadvantage in terms of the public eye, there's no question about it.
Do you think that your marital problems with Ivana, in some way, cause some of this to happen?
Probably.
Is there a connection? What is the connection?
I think there was a -- that the publicity was so huge, so intense, so incredibly intense. I mean, 22 days in a row, or something, on the cover of the tabloids. It's never been anything like that, and it's disgraceful. And somehow, in a bad economy, people focused on me as opposed to everybody else.
I signed a prenuptial agreement with Ivana. The reason for a prenuptial agreement is it takes away uncertainty. When it takes away uncertainty, it's quiet, it's nice, it's clean, everything. Well, Ivana decided to sue me on it. Brilliantly decided to sue me on it. So now she sued - --
Brilliantly?
Yeah, brilliantly, sarcastically brilliantly.
I see.
She decides to sue me on it. She's not going to win the suit. I thought it was dishonorable to do it, but she decided to do it. That caused tremendous turmoil, tremendous publicity, tremendous everything else. And I have no doubt in my mind that that was a very negative factor. There's no question in my mind.
There's some confusion as to you marital state. You're still married, but you've told friends that you'll probably be divorced.
I am still married. I don't know what the legal definition of marriage is, to be perfectly honest.
You don't the legal definition of marriage?
The legal definition of marriage in this context. I am married. I don't know whether or not you'd consider it a separation. I can't tell you what's going to happen because I'm not even sure I know myself.
You've said in your book that Marla Maples did not cause the breakup of your marriage, that you and Ivana would have split anyway. But didn't it hasten it?
No.
Had nothing to do with it?
That's an absolute correct statement. Marla Maples is a friend of mine. I have a lot of other friends. It -- nobody caused - --
You treat the other friends the same way?
I mean they had me -- they had me going out with every woman in the United States.
We're not talking about that. We're talking about this one.
Marla Maples is a friend. I have a lot of friends. Did it hasten the breakup? Absolutely -- in my opinion, absolutely not. The breakup was going to occur. And I'm not going to disparage Ivana. You'll never hear me disparage Ivana, for one reason. She's the mother of my children, I'm not disparaging. But you grow apart.
While we're talking about Ivana as a mother, there have been reports recently, in the paper, some of them attributed to Marla, that Ivana is not a good mother. That she has left her children this summer. But the truth is that she is with her children right now, on a boat - --
I think Ivana's a very good mother.
Okay.
Ivana's a good mother.
And the -- also, the truth is, that you yourself said that you saw your children maybe once a week. You're having a lot of difficulties with your 12-year-old son, Donnie. You haven't talked to him since May. I mean, this is a very painful situation.
I am not going to disparage Ivana as a woman or as a mother.
You do say she is a good mother.
I say she's a good mother. I say that Ivana is fine. As far as myself, I think I'm a very good father. I've been a very good provider, and I guess you have to leave it like that, Barbara. I mean, what can I say?
Do you believe in fidelity in marriage?
Yes, absolutely I do. Absolutely. I think that there's nothing better than a good marriage. There is nothing worse than a bad marriage. I'm absolutely a believer in marriage, I'm an absolute believer in fidelity. But if a marriage isn't working, that's a different ball game.
I want to clear something up. In your book, the new book, you say, "The fun is in the getting, not the having." Does that include women? No kidding.
Interesting question. I think the hunt is always fun, whether it's deals, whether it's women, whether it's anything. I think, however, that with respect to women, there would be nothing that would make me happier than having a great marriage. An absolutely great marriage, and that would certainly supersede the hunt.
My colleague, Diane Sawyer, did an interview with Marla, in which Marla said that she loves you. Do you love her?
I'm not going to comment on it. I'm not going to talk about it.
And that's where Trump drew the line. He's still in litigation with Ivana over the validity of the prenuptial agreement. Because of that, he said, he would not discuss Marla any further.
With all of the publicity, and with the way that you have answered, there are people who say "Why won't he show some humility?" Why say surviving at the top?
Well, that means a lot of things. Surviving at the top - --
Well, I mean, you never say , "I made mistakes. Gee, I'm in trouble." Things are bad.
Everybody makes mistakes.
You haven't said it.
I make mistakes.
I mean, people don't think you show any humility.
Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that I'm a rather -- and you will be surprised, but I can be a rather humble person if I want to be. If I feel I'm in the right environment. You're always guarded. I'm not going to let my guard down because you happen to be asking me questions. You're somebody that I know and have a great respect for, but I'm not going to let my guard down because Barbara's here asking me questions.
I can understand that. You have a brother, whom you were very close to, Robert. You had another brother, Fred Jr., who died. Who just somehow couldn't make it in life. What did you learn from that, or did you?
Well, I think it relates to your previous question. I mean, Freddie was a great guy, had everything. He was very open. Very much the opposite, in a sense, he was very open. And because of his openness, he got himself into a lot of trouble. And ultimately it was alcohol that just decimated him.
It was a horror show. And it really took Freddie's life, alcohol. And I'm glad I'm not drinker. I mean, I've never had a drink in my life. But frankly, you know, it gives you the opportunity if you do -- the negative opportunity -- that if you do, it can really hurt you. And it hurt him.
Your brother was open. Too vulnerable, maybe. Drank. Did this make you, I don't know, close up? Keep it all inside?
I learned a lot of things from Fred. But I did learn for myself that I don't want to be open. I don't want to make myself vulnerable. I also learned that you have to do what you want to do.
You say, "Just wait five years." Look ahead five years. Where is Donald Trump?
I don't know. There's too many variables. You live for today, you do for today.
Is today okay?
Today's okay. Hey, today's not great. I mean, between a marriage and between all the struggles and between life and everything else, I mean, it's not like it's the greatest time of my life, but it's not the worst. I've had a much worse time in my life. And I live very much for the moment. I think the future is very important, but the moment is here. You don't know if you're going to be in the future.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So where do Donald and Ivana go from here? Well, Ivana is still running the Plaza Hotel, and she's in town, taking care of her three children. Her future looks good. She's handled the situation with discretion and has received many offers to come out with her own line of products. As for Donald, well, this week he received yet another blow.
When the New Jersey Casino Control Commission revealed that his financial empire is worth far less than he claimed last year. And further, if he had been forced to sell his assets this spring, they say he might not have realized enough money to get out of debt. Still, with all of his troubles, there's something very disarming about Donald Trump, and he possesses both courage and daring.
Like him or not, the man is an original, determined to survive at the top. Well, coming up next, we're going to bring you a man who, if possible, is even more controversial than Donald Trump. The man who runs the Yankees for just three more days. An exclusive interview with baseball's most famous owner, George Steinbrenner.