[The segment of this show was entitled "Who Owns America"]
Earlier today we talked to Donald Trump about this apparent fire sale of American assets. I began by asking him if he minds the fact that the Japanese are buying up American icons, like Columbia Pictures and Rockefeller Center.
I don't love the fact, but I think stopping the investment would be catastrophic for the United States.
Why?
What I do think is -- and what I do really feel strongly about is the way they've made this massive amount of money. They made the money from this country. They've won the economic war. If you look at the great banks of the world -- Citibank -- I mean, it used to be number one, and number two. Bank of America. Bank of America is not on the list virtually. Citibank is number 27. The top ten banks in the world are Japanese banks.
But it's all right if they continue to invest at the current rate?
I think investment is fine, but I think we should take plenty of their money so they won't be able to invest as much. I believe very strongly in tariffs. I believe that Japan -- and I'm not just saying Japan. I'm saying that all of the many nations that abuse the United States should pay a major tax -- like a 15 or a 20 percent tax on any product they sell in the United States. I'm using Japan as an example. Japan is not even the worst abuser.
If you look at West Germany, if you look at Saudi Arabia, if you look at so many of the other countries, South Korea, they are absolutely catastrophic in what they're doing to this country. America is being ripped off. And I'll tell you what. We're not going to have an America in 10 years if it keeps going like this. We're a debtor nation, and we have to tax, we have to tariff, we have to protect this country. And nobody's doing it.
But the West Germans and the Japanese would say, "You built the debt up yourselves in the United States. Don't go complaining to us because you're a debtor nation."
You know where we owe the money? We owe the money mostly to Japan, West Germany and these countries. We borrowed -- can you believe this? -- we borrowed the money. Why do we have debt? We have debt because we service the military of Japan for nothing. Do you know that we protect Japan for nothing? When we were in the Persian Gulf, so that Japan could get its oil out -- why didn't Saudi Arabia pay us for that?
Well, but wait a minute. We have a debt also because we don't have income to meet the expenditures. I mean, the debt has increased in the last decade astronomically.
That is correct.
So it is in some sense a choice. You can't blame them for that.
I don't blame anyone for anything. In fact, I have tremendous respect for what the Japanese have done. The Japanese, the West Germans, the South Koreans have systematically ripped us off. That doesn't mean that we have to dislike them. I have -- I respect them.
Do you have Japanese backing for any of your deals?
I'm involved with Japanese. I sell apartments to Japanese. I have tremendous respect for the Japanese.
Financial backing for some of your deals?
No, not particularly, I mean, I'm --
At all?
Fortunately my deals are so good that they get very automatic American backing. I have to tell you, though, when you do a certain size deal, just to show you how sad it is, if you don't get Japanese bank financing, you virtually can't finance the deal. If you're into the bigger stratosphere of deal without the Japanese banks, nowadays you're virtually unable to finance the deal. They're the ones with the big money. They're the ones that have the real economic power.
Do you think a lot of the reaction is just emotional -- some people would even say racist reaction to the Japanese?
I think there's not a racist reaction, I think there's an economic reaction. I think when a Rockefeller Center is sold it creates a psychological problem in a country.
You wouldn't have kept them from buying Rockefeller Center or Columbia Pictures?
No, but I would have made it much more difficult for them currently to have the kind of money that they have. They have so much money that they've taken out of this country that they're able to come back in with that money and invest in Rockefeller Center and buy Rockefeller Center at a huge price, etcetera, etcetera. Hey, again --
There's nothing wrong if they're acquiring huge percentages of the downtown real estate in all these cities?
I don't love it, but if you want to stop it, put a tax on their products, Diane. You put a tax so that you keep the money in this country. I don't want to stop them from investing in the United States. It was very difficult for me to buy the Plaza Hotel, because every other person that wanted the Plaza Hotel happened to be Japanese. And it's very tough to compete with these money machines.
But I'll tell you this. If you want to stop the Japanese, put a tax and stop talking about it, put a tax on the Japanese sale of products. Balance the budget by January. And don't let them talk you out of it. Don't let the lobbyists in Washington -- of which we have virtually none, because they're all taken care of by the other governments -- don't let those lobbyists talk our politicians out of it. I'm telling you, that's the way to solve this country's problem quickly and effectively.
A quick word of advice to the small investor. Is the market just too precarious now for the small investor? Is it really only for the people who can afford to gamble? Would you say stay out?
I would say the market can be a great thing for the larger investor. I think for the small investor it's catastrophic to be perfectly honest. I think you're better off going to Atlantic City and rolling the dice. It really is a very big risk. You're putting your money in the hands of people, many of whom are incompetent, to run a company. And in many cases those countries [sic] are dominated by foreign money, such as the Japanese power. So I think for the small investor it's foolish.
Are you fastening your seat belt for a bumpy year ahead?
I think it could be a bumpy year. It could be okay, but it could be a bumpy year. I predict, though, if we don't do something about the Japanese problem, and the foreign countries abusing the United States, if we don't do something about that problem, it will certainly be a bumpy five years ahead. I will guarantee that.
Let me add a note now on foreign investment. Lest we think Mr. Trump is just trying to get people's attention, he says he's fully prepared for a trade war to ensure. That the U.S. will either come out ahead, or at least succeed in getting other countries to take it seriously for a change if that happens.
I don't think anyone would win a trade war, Diane. I mean, the truth is the Japanese have outproduced us, have outthought us, and they've outsold us for a number of years. And what we've got to do is hit them back on that playing field. Not throw up trade barriers, because I think we just hurt ourselves.
But there's also a truth that there are a number of invisible barriers in their country. It's not a fair field.
No, that's true -- it's not a level playing field completely, but we're still the 800 pound gorilla. By the way, let me tell you something, $400 billion worth of investments from the United Kingdom, $250 billion from Japan. You don't hear people running around saying, "Oh, those Brits!" What is it about the Japanese?
Do you think it's a kind of racial --
Yeah, I think we've got a thing about the Japanese.
Let me just add before we go, by the way. I did ask Donald Trump if the reports are true that he's going to make another bid for American Airlines. And he gave me a stony, "No comment." So I thought I'd pass it on to you.
In Washington, "No comment," always means confirmation. Diane, in a moment we'll switch gears from who owns America to the struggle for Central America. We'll talk live with the President of Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega. This week he posed a major challenge to President Bush by resuming his war on the contras.